Darren A Smith has worked for over 25 years in the United Kingdom’s grocery industry. This experience has taught him the ins and outs of succeeding in the industry, which includes how to manage relationships between suppliers and retailers. With this experience, Darren started Making Business Matter (MBM) to achieve better working relationships between the two parties.
After working for more than 25 years in the industry, Darren A Smith has also gained enough knowledge to become a world class tutor in his field. For this first 12 years of his career, Darren was a Buyer & Category Manager for one of the big four UK supermarkets, focusing on fresh foods, including cheese, fruit, and ready meals. After that, he moved on to start MBM.
At MBM, Darren A Smith has spent the last 14 years working with suppliers on developing their people, so that they always get the best version of their workers day in and day out. He understands that proper people development would go a long way in helping suppliers and retailers work together. Aside from people development, Darren specializes in “category management training, negotiation skills, and time management.”
Darren A Smith has had articles published in several industry publications. These outlets include The Grocer, FPJ, Supply Management, among others. He also wrote “A Complete Understanding of the Groceries Supply Code of Practice (GSCOP).” This book should give you a better understanding of the GSCOP Code of Practice, which encourages fair treatment from UK supermarkets for their suppliers.
Check out more interviews with business experts here. You can also watch Darren A Smith in action in these videos.
Jerome Knyszewski: What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
Darren A Smith: We are like any other training company. This was the ‘punch in the face’ moment I had 10 years ago. We were doing the same stuff as everyone else. 1-day training courses that achieved diddly squat. The person to thank for this enlightenment? Richard White.
You might remember that I was in the garage working with gloves on, shivering and struggling to sell MMM. In sheer desperation I went onto a website looking for sales tips. Richard found me there, and he became my sales coach for 14 years. Don’t get me wrong, I hated it. Every Tuesday night at 9pm for an hour (He was doing it for free, so he chose the time and I fitted-in). He asked me all the questions I did not want to answer. I loved and hated that man in equal measure. Sadly, two years ago, he took his own life (Home troubles) — I loved that man for all that he did for me. RIP Mr. White.
One of the things Richard asked me to do, was to open 4 tabs on my computer browser. Now on each one open up your website and 3 competitors. I did. Intrigued, but I trusted him. Then he said, ‘Go to each one and put your hand over the logo — what do you notice?’. My reply, ‘They all say the same sh1t’. Hoorah, I was right. Oh no, I was right!!!
He asked me why people would buy training. We explored it for a while and the penny dropped even louder. The last decade saw the birth of ‘Sticky Learning ®’. A unique training method. Its birth came from that moment and then grew as we asked people what irritated them about training. HR Managers, Learning & Development Managers, and Training Officers told us 3 things, in amongst their huge frustration on the topic:
- People come back from training, tell us that it was great, and then do nothing different.
- We have no idea how to justify what we have spent on training.
- The trainers don’t know supermarkets and the world of retailing. They have no clue.
We aimed to meet their needs and have tried every day since. Making Business Matter (MBM) focuses on a very narrow client base — suppliers to UK supermarkets. Of which there about 10,000 and of those about 2,5000 that spend a decent amount on training. I believe the guru’s call this hyper-specialization. Plus, we stopped selling 1-day training courses because they achieve zero behavioral change and we started selling programmes of training that include ‘spaced repetition’. The sort of thing you did when learning to drive. A lesson once a week, with spaces in between. In addition, we created a 5-level evaluation called the ‘Chain of Evidence’.
Sticky Learning ® and the Chain of Evidence ® was born. We have never looked back! For all other training companies, they fight on price. A race to the bottom. We don’t.
Jerome Knyszewski: Which tips would you recommend to your colleagues in your industry to help them to thrive and not “burn out”?
Darren A Smith: There is a great 30-second video on YouTube of a woman that has built a vegetable chopping machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u8E-4YVANU Basically, it’s rubbish and she built it for a laugh. The carrots aren’t chopped properly, and the machine is slow and ineffective.
Why am I telling you this? Bear with me…
As a start-up, some weeks I worked over 100 hours per week. It was crazy. My children were small and there is a reason I got a nickname at the time of ‘The Lodger’.
Most people have a time management system. Cue a snigger. Yes, you do. It gets you to work, to meetings and you do a good job. Here’s the rub:
Your time management system is like the carrot chopping machine. Ineffective. If it were your ineffective carrot chopping machine would you ‘fix it’ by running it longer? Of course, you wouldn’t.
Penny dropped? It did for me. Hours are not the answer. Fix your machine first.
Jerome Knyszewski: None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?
Darren A Smith: It was like a door had been opened. I’d always been fascinated by behavior, how we think and what makes us tick. I read Napoleon Hill’s book, ‘Think and Grow Rich’ at the age of 16 and I was hooked. If you have not read it, please do.
The next dose of inspiration came in the form of a speaker. At every Sainsbury’s (UK Supermarket chain) annual conference, a guest speaker would do their thing on stage. This time, for me, it was different. Jack Black (not the actor) was strutting up and down stage sharing his mental fitness programme. Telling great stories and inspiring everyone. I was hooked. A Scotsman with a desire to share a way to think yourself successful, and he shared it like a pastor in the deep South of the States — Evangelical-like.
From 1998 I would join Mindstore to go and see Jack on stage every year at my own expense. Sometimes twice a year. What I came to realize was that what Jack was sharing was no different to other motivation speakers who knew that belief, expectation and desire (BED) were essential to success. I just liked the way the Jack spoke and shared his version, and did it through really engaging stories. This was to spark my love for storytelling. Hopefully you can tell ☺
In 2003 I had decided to leave Sainsbury’s and set-up on my own. I needed Jack more than ever. I went to Glasgow to see him and he announced that he would be launching ‘retreats’. Week-long intimate gatherings. His first, a trial was in 2 months and 20 lucky people could attend from this crowd of 10,000, a and for free. They just need to write to Mindstore and say why.
I wrote in. I got rejected but I knew I was going because I had ‘programmed it’ — A Mindstore way of thinking to get what you want. A week later Mindstore wrote and said that they had made a mistake — I was to attend. <Here’s my surprised face> Arriving at the Buddhist retreat was everything I had wanted it to be. Then we were told — ‘No outside contact’. My son was 3 weeks old. I was allowed to call my wife. Happy, she was not. See you in a week!
What happened on the retreat cannot be shared. Suffice to say that finding my spirit animal was just one of many moments that I will treasure to the grave. Plus, hugging Jack Black a lot through the retreat was not something 30-something year old British males do — or at least I thought they didn’t. That changed.
Last year I had dragonflies tattooed on my back. #justsaying
Jerome Knyszewski: Ok thank you for all that. Now let’s shift to the main focus of this interview. Delegating effectively is a challenge for many leaders. Let’s put first things first. Can you help articulate to our readers a few reasons why delegating is such an important skill for a leader or a business owner to develop?
Darren A Smith: The simple answer is ‘your ceiling’. You set your ceiling at the hours you work, and your capability within those hours. If you want to be a self-employed plumber then your success/earnings are set by 40 hours per week, or you could do more hours. Either way it is hours worked x the rate you can charge.
Knowledge workers are a little different, but the principal still applies. Of course, you can always work more hours, and that will get you so far, and increasing your capability will take you a bit further. Leading and managing people is where success really lies.
It’s a simple choice. Do you do as others do, work more hours and hope you climb the greasy ladder? Or do you continually learn and begin to manage & lead? If it is the latter, then you cannot lead & manage unless you can delegate. Obviously, there are more qualities required than just delegation, to be a great leader & manager. Though delegation is a key one.
Delegate well and raise your ceiling.
Jerome Knyszewski: Can you help articulate a few of the reasons why delegating is such a challenge for so many people?
Darren A Smith:
There are 3 reasons why people struggle to delegate. This is what they think:
- ‘I can do it better myself, so why bother delegating?’.
- ‘Delegating takes too long. I need to get it done now’.
- ‘When I delegate, they do it wrongly any way. So, what’s the point?’.
These 3 reasons mean that people do not delegate, or if they do, they prove to themselves that delegating does not work by unintentionally giving poor briefs so that people fail. Theory tested and conclude ‘I’ll do it myself’.
Jerome Knyszewski: In your opinion, what pivots need to be made, either in perspective or in work habits, to help alleviate some of the challenges you mentioned?
Darren A Smith: Change is hard. Changing behaviors is very hard. Not impossible. Just hard. In my 18-years’ experience of helping people to achieve behavioral change, I see people answer the question above by explaining the reasons why. But people get the reason why. They are not stupid. An intellectual discussion is not needed because they agree. ‘You are preaching to the converted’, as my old boss used to say. It’s changing habits is where the focus needs to be. Habits are hard to break and hard to form. If they weren’t, we’d all be going to the gym!
BJ Fogg is a professor at Stanford University. I consider him to be the grandfather of ‘habits’, His pioneering research into habits is essential when it comes to changing behaviours. In his model: https://behaviormodel.org you can see that forming habits is about three things:
- Do I know how to do it — this is ability.
- Do I want to do it — this is motivation.
- How do I prompt myself to do it — trigger/prompt/reminder.
Let’s begin with the first, ability. In my opinion the situational leadership model is perfect, just too complex. I’ve seen many people love it and struggle to implement it. A bit like a favourite pair of old jeans — you like them, but can’t bring yourself to throw them away, and haven’t got the desire to get them mended either. They just sit there nagging in the back of your brain — the Situational Leadership model.
I turn to Stephen Covey’s habit #2 — begin with the end in mind. He tells a wonderful story about delegating to his son. He asks his son to take a look at the yard of his neighbour and describe it — ‘Clean, no rubbish, mown lawn, no dog poop, and garden toys away’. Then he asks him to describe theirs. The boy says, ‘Well it’s a mess Dad’. Stephen bites his tongue and then says, ‘Well, I want it to look like that and if you do there’s $20 in it for you’. Covey delegates to his son Shaun on results.
So, the take-away for ability is to delegate on results. ‘I need a PowerPoint deck of 12 slides, rich in colour, easy to read graphs, that answers the client’s question of — why use us — and I need the first draft by Monday at 6pm. Please tell me what you need to do’. The last part is very important to check understanding by them telling you what they need to do, to ensure they ‘got it’. Then ask, ‘What questions do you have?’. Note the use of an open question — Not, ‘Do you have any questions?’. The latter will yield no questions. In my experience everyone has heard of open questions and can wax lyrical about them. In practice, they don’t use them.
The second part of BJ Fogg’s habit model is motivation. Basically, the line manager knows that they need to make a choice. Either get good at this delegation thing and reach higher, or don’t, reach less, and forever be frustrated with your people. Doomed to a life of moaning about why your team aren’t good enough.
The third is the prompt. The best prompt? Tell your team. Share with them what you are doing and ask them to help you to delegate better. It’s that simple.
Remember that it takes 21 times to form a habit.
Jerome Knyszewski: Thank you for all of that. We are nearly done. You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Darren A Smith: Lovely question!
The ‘Just One More’ Movement.
Inspired by the film ‘Hacksaw Ridge’. A soldier that refused to carry a weapon due to his religious beliefs, yet wanted to serve, so he decided to be a medic in the Second World War. A true story. Desmond Doss saved over 75 soldiers and received the Medal of Honor without firing a single shot. As he saved each soldier he was motivated by his god and kept saying, ‘Please Lord, help me get just one more’.
From the heroes of yesteryear to the biggest challenge we face today — our environment. We need to move beyond just leaving the beach having collected the rubbish we took, but also going one step beyond. Simply, by grabbing one other piece of litter that was not ours. If everyone did the same — just one more — not only would we clear the beaches, but we might save — just one more — turtle, seabird, or dolphin from trying to live inside a plastic bag.
#justonemore.
Jerome Knyszewski: How can our readers further follow you online?
Darren A Smith: Please follow the articles I write on our blog: https://www.makingbusinessmatter.co.uk/blog and also the articles of other great writers.
Jerome Knyszewski: This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this!
